Discovering Carbon Monoxide - The Right Way!
Thoughts / Considerations possibly helpful for your Mobile Home deaths case in L - - - - - City, Utah
From Tom Rodgers <[email protected]>
Sent Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:29 PM
To Lt. T L - - - - <tl - - - - @l - - - - - city.org>
Lt. L - - - -
Since our conversation relating to the A - - - - - - - deaths in their mobile home -- even though your Fire Department's atmospheric tester [probably an "Eagle" or equivalent] at the time of their entry was interpreted as negative -- based on my experiences in similar cases -- I hope that a vigorous blood and/or tissue evaluation has been or will be done to assuredly rule in or out carbon monoxide as possible factor in the couple's death (or suicide).
Because of the transitory (easily dispersed or clearing) "frankly fickle" atmospheric nature of Carbon Monoxide in most natural or normally ventilated human environments (like the A - - - - - - -'s mobile home) Our hope was that a much more reliable Carboxyhemoglobin and tissue chemistry has been or will done -- unless an other irrefutable cause has been absolutely proven.
Since we spoke I have additional thoughts in your A - - - - - - - case which may be of help. If they prove not to be useful in this case, I certainly will not be offended. But since Carbon Monoxide is not only the "Silent Killer" but is also the most insidious "Elusive Killer" I organized these "Criminal ID and Capture" understandings into 7 concepts as follows:
1st: Since we have experienced serious heat in the last week and the Anderson's Mobile home had no trees shielding it, hyperthermia (over-heating like a pet or child in a closed car) could have contributed to already existing (as the media alleged) disease conditions (coronary, respiratory, systemic failure, depression, thermal desperation/delirium/despondency [potentially fomenting suicide?]). --
-- Was their air conditioning working when you or your officers entered their home. If so was it the Evaporative "swamp" Cooler on the roof running, was it getting water, or the refrigeration AC units in the windows? Either should have been on and cooling that mobile home "oven" they were living in? Was their electricity on, cut off (or about to be)?
2nd: If the Evaporative "swamp" Cooler was running, depending on is roof-top positioning, it has the potential to draw in the water heater exhaust fumes and poison occupants while the water heater is fired if the water heater's exhaust jack is less than 10 feet distant from the swamp cooler (in violation of ASHRAE code 62.2).
The "in-drafting of fumes" through the swamp cooler also applies to sewer and other hazardous fumes venting jacks if mounted too close or nearby.)
3rd: With the existence of any Gas or Combustion dependent Appliance, transitory Carbon Monoxide must still be considered suspect! Interior flue connections, combustion chamber or heat exchanger walls and welds should be examined for each combustion dependent appliance. "Smoke", "Sniffer" or "Light (escape)" tests are common methods of detection for these problems.
Lt Gov Gregg Bell thanked me and stated that I had saved his and JoLynn's lives, after hearing me present this mobile home poisoning risk issue and the symptoms in legislative committees and at two of Governor Herbert's Native American Summits, which motivated him to have his home and his own health issues more honstly investigated and found his furnaces combustion chamber had oxidized though and was subtly poisoning him, JoLynn and anyone in his home through his age and heat oxidized "burned out" (conventional) home furnace Sadly, though he had had many medical evaluations done, including trying to find answer to his and JoLynn's compromised health issue, no effort was made to see if carbon monoxide was at cause, until he heard me and demanded it be done.
4th: Water Heaters especially in mobile homes with age and common water leakage (generally unattended and unnoticed in their closet space) tend to rot out the composite wood floors supporting them so they sink (under the heavy water weight load) and separate from their (ceiling secured) flue connections, allowing the water heater's combustion fumes to empty inside the home and subtly poison occupants (as some of my cases have demonstrated) in those periods that the water heater is fired.
5th: Gas Fired Cloths Dryers are also common and easy sources of Carbon Monoxide poisonings since the open venturi combustion flame, heat and its fumes are directly used to pass through and dry the cloths. With lint filter or exhaust tube obstructions, ignition or flame sensor failures, the flame and it fumes will "back empty" into the dryer's cabinet and laundry room space (compounding carbon monoxide production in obligate reburn of exhaust) quickly and severely poisoning that area and the home (before oxygen depletion extinguishes the flame and flame sensors cool to terminate fuel supply.
Also too often the dryer has been moved (for cleaning etc) and the exhaust vent connections (behind the dryer and left unnoticed) have separated completely or opened enough to allow the always toxic dryer exhaust fumes to empty into the home.
6th: Cook Tops and Ovens always produce carbon monoxide and its associated toxins. That is why good, working exhaust hoods should always be running and drafting cooking and baking created fumes away to the outside any time the gas or propane stove is used -- especially in the confined and limited air volume space of a mobile home -- or any home. In running just one burner without perfect ventilation in a small kitchen in less then 20 minutes a pregnant mother can exceed the CDC's ACGIH 25 ppm limit exposure found to be clinically detrimental to a fetus in utero, or any infant or toddler in that space with her. That low exposure tolerance limit of 25 ppm has also been demonstrated as deleterious and dangerously injurious to elderly and already diseased or health impaired individuals (like Shauna Anderson was purported to be). Was there working hood over the Anderson's stove, if it was not electric?
7th: Critical to correct diagnoses (revisiting our conversation of yesterday)
Atmospheric testing for Carbon Monoxide is only valid if the environment is undisturbed and is exactly as it was at the time of poisoning event. Any openings will effect dispersion and clearing, so 15 minutes later you may find nothing.
Blood (Carboxyhemoglobin) and tissue evaluation "examining the human time capsule" if done in a timely, correct and diligent manner can (instantly in the living) more dependably demonstrate the exposure to Carbon Monoxide several hours even days after the event (even weeks to months through cellular chemistry or hair analysis even postmortem if required)
I hope this information gleaned from my experience may be of some value or help.
Your A - - - - - - - case is a very sad case,
I hope all goes well in your investigation, discovery and conclusions.
Thanks-
Sincerely
Thomas L Rodgers
801-298-9095
From Tom Rodgers <[email protected]>
Sent Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:29 PM
To Lt. T L - - - - <tl - - - - @l - - - - - city.org>
Lt. L - - - -
Since our conversation relating to the A - - - - - - - deaths in their mobile home -- even though your Fire Department's atmospheric tester [probably an "Eagle" or equivalent] at the time of their entry was interpreted as negative -- based on my experiences in similar cases -- I hope that a vigorous blood and/or tissue evaluation has been or will be done to assuredly rule in or out carbon monoxide as possible factor in the couple's death (or suicide).
Because of the transitory (easily dispersed or clearing) "frankly fickle" atmospheric nature of Carbon Monoxide in most natural or normally ventilated human environments (like the A - - - - - - -'s mobile home) Our hope was that a much more reliable Carboxyhemoglobin and tissue chemistry has been or will done -- unless an other irrefutable cause has been absolutely proven.
Since we spoke I have additional thoughts in your A - - - - - - - case which may be of help. If they prove not to be useful in this case, I certainly will not be offended. But since Carbon Monoxide is not only the "Silent Killer" but is also the most insidious "Elusive Killer" I organized these "Criminal ID and Capture" understandings into 7 concepts as follows:
1st: Since we have experienced serious heat in the last week and the Anderson's Mobile home had no trees shielding it, hyperthermia (over-heating like a pet or child in a closed car) could have contributed to already existing (as the media alleged) disease conditions (coronary, respiratory, systemic failure, depression, thermal desperation/delirium/despondency [potentially fomenting suicide?]). --
-- Was their air conditioning working when you or your officers entered their home. If so was it the Evaporative "swamp" Cooler on the roof running, was it getting water, or the refrigeration AC units in the windows? Either should have been on and cooling that mobile home "oven" they were living in? Was their electricity on, cut off (or about to be)?
2nd: If the Evaporative "swamp" Cooler was running, depending on is roof-top positioning, it has the potential to draw in the water heater exhaust fumes and poison occupants while the water heater is fired if the water heater's exhaust jack is less than 10 feet distant from the swamp cooler (in violation of ASHRAE code 62.2).
The "in-drafting of fumes" through the swamp cooler also applies to sewer and other hazardous fumes venting jacks if mounted too close or nearby.)
3rd: With the existence of any Gas or Combustion dependent Appliance, transitory Carbon Monoxide must still be considered suspect! Interior flue connections, combustion chamber or heat exchanger walls and welds should be examined for each combustion dependent appliance. "Smoke", "Sniffer" or "Light (escape)" tests are common methods of detection for these problems.
Lt Gov Gregg Bell thanked me and stated that I had saved his and JoLynn's lives, after hearing me present this mobile home poisoning risk issue and the symptoms in legislative committees and at two of Governor Herbert's Native American Summits, which motivated him to have his home and his own health issues more honstly investigated and found his furnaces combustion chamber had oxidized though and was subtly poisoning him, JoLynn and anyone in his home through his age and heat oxidized "burned out" (conventional) home furnace Sadly, though he had had many medical evaluations done, including trying to find answer to his and JoLynn's compromised health issue, no effort was made to see if carbon monoxide was at cause, until he heard me and demanded it be done.
4th: Water Heaters especially in mobile homes with age and common water leakage (generally unattended and unnoticed in their closet space) tend to rot out the composite wood floors supporting them so they sink (under the heavy water weight load) and separate from their (ceiling secured) flue connections, allowing the water heater's combustion fumes to empty inside the home and subtly poison occupants (as some of my cases have demonstrated) in those periods that the water heater is fired.
5th: Gas Fired Cloths Dryers are also common and easy sources of Carbon Monoxide poisonings since the open venturi combustion flame, heat and its fumes are directly used to pass through and dry the cloths. With lint filter or exhaust tube obstructions, ignition or flame sensor failures, the flame and it fumes will "back empty" into the dryer's cabinet and laundry room space (compounding carbon monoxide production in obligate reburn of exhaust) quickly and severely poisoning that area and the home (before oxygen depletion extinguishes the flame and flame sensors cool to terminate fuel supply.
Also too often the dryer has been moved (for cleaning etc) and the exhaust vent connections (behind the dryer and left unnoticed) have separated completely or opened enough to allow the always toxic dryer exhaust fumes to empty into the home.
6th: Cook Tops and Ovens always produce carbon monoxide and its associated toxins. That is why good, working exhaust hoods should always be running and drafting cooking and baking created fumes away to the outside any time the gas or propane stove is used -- especially in the confined and limited air volume space of a mobile home -- or any home. In running just one burner without perfect ventilation in a small kitchen in less then 20 minutes a pregnant mother can exceed the CDC's ACGIH 25 ppm limit exposure found to be clinically detrimental to a fetus in utero, or any infant or toddler in that space with her. That low exposure tolerance limit of 25 ppm has also been demonstrated as deleterious and dangerously injurious to elderly and already diseased or health impaired individuals (like Shauna Anderson was purported to be). Was there working hood over the Anderson's stove, if it was not electric?
7th: Critical to correct diagnoses (revisiting our conversation of yesterday)
Atmospheric testing for Carbon Monoxide is only valid if the environment is undisturbed and is exactly as it was at the time of poisoning event. Any openings will effect dispersion and clearing, so 15 minutes later you may find nothing.
Blood (Carboxyhemoglobin) and tissue evaluation "examining the human time capsule" if done in a timely, correct and diligent manner can (instantly in the living) more dependably demonstrate the exposure to Carbon Monoxide several hours even days after the event (even weeks to months through cellular chemistry or hair analysis even postmortem if required)
I hope this information gleaned from my experience may be of some value or help.
Your A - - - - - - - case is a very sad case,
I hope all goes well in your investigation, discovery and conclusions.
Thanks-
Sincerely
Thomas L Rodgers
801-298-9095